The 3 Secrets of Culturalization (Plus a Bonus!)

Bryan Montpetit 00:06
So three secrets of culturalization plus a bonus. And this is going to be presented by different people that are in clerics. So we have Lloyd Martin, the cultural team lead. We have Laura and ours, who is an English Spanish localizer and cultural outreach expert, and we have a Natalia yet cinco, who's English, Russian Vocalizer cultural integration expert. And I see we have Laura and we have Natalia. And I think we're waiting for Lloyd to hop in. And all right. Do we have Lloyd currently looking forward, Lloyd? Hi, there, Laura.

Laura Linares 00:50
Hi, there. How are you? Fine. Thank you, Nicole. I'm just gonna double check. Hi, there, right?

Natalia Yatsenko 00:59
Yeah, we're just texted him, we'll see. Maybe he'll just need to rejoin by the same link.

Bryan Montpetit 01:05
Not a problem. With the virtual conferences, these types of things happen from time to time. So you know, just have to come up some witty banter. I'll actually I'll leave that for you. But I appreciate you guys being here. Thank you. And, again, I know that the the culturalization aspects is something we don't often talk about. So I'm really excited to hear but we you know, we talked about all the other eight positions, if you will. But it's it's really something that I think should be at the forefront of our discussions. And it plays, I guess, really importantly, into how we service our customers, how we actually deploy product, how we, you know, just everything that the business is dealing with on a global business anyhow. So I'm really excited to hear the perspectives. And I don't know if you heard before, but I've decided I'm going to dub the culturalization C 13. N, just in case anybody hasn't already loved that one. You heard it here first. So let's go with that. Right. Just I'm on my way, it's already open. We're going to do it right now. So yeah, unfortunately, I don't know what's happening with with Lauren. I think he has some joining issues. Would you guys like to get started meanwhile, and we'll welcome him in when he has a chance to join.

Natalia Yatsenko 02:19
Maybe he's in the waiting area somewhere.

Laura Linares 02:23
He's, he's just texting in the chat. I think his his name appears in Cyrillic alphabet, so okay. But he just texted in the chat. So um,

Natalia Yatsenko 02:35
all right, you can see the last message it says, My name is. Yeah.

Bryan Montpetit 02:42
There we go. To be able to know since we're like,

Lloyd Morin 02:47
that was stressful. I couldn't figure out how to change my name during the presentation. I'm sorry. No, not

Bryan Montpetit 02:55
it. Not a problem. Thanks for joining us. Appreciate it. Shall we give you a second just to decompress here? Are you okay?

Lloyd Morin 03:01
Yeah, yeah, I'll be okay.

Bryan Montpetit 03:04
Start with a deep breath. And then what I'll do is I'll turn it over to you guys. And I'll hop back in right to right before the end so we can feel some some QA.

Lloyd Morin 03:12
Thank you. Great. Okay. Thank you for that. Thanks, everyone. All right. Okay, so I'm just gonna share my screen here,

Bryan Montpetit 03:19
please do. And I'll hop out. Thanks, everyone.

Lloyd Morin 03:27
All right. Okay. So, yes, my name is Lloyd Morin. I'm here with my colleagues and Tasha and Lauder. We're going to tell you a little bit about culturalization. We're going to tell you what, first of all, culturalization is very briefly, in case you don't know. We actually are our company's culturalization mini team. And we work in our broader localization team. So a little bit about, yeah, so we're talking about culturalization, and how we use it to bring extra value to our games. So a little bit of information about our company itself. You'll see here, pictures of some of our titles or current releases. The main thing for you to know, though, for this presentation, is that we focus our main markets, probably not surprisingly, are the United States and China. Although we do localize into many other languages, figs, Korea, Japanese standard Chinese, traditional Chinese, etc, etc. Turkish I didn't forget Turkish. Yes. And what's also very interesting about our company, is that most of our developers, the artists, the writers, all of these teams are based in places like Russia, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Belrose. So we even have studios in Serbia and Croatia, but generally this sort of post Soviet space or Eastern Europe. And as you may or may not know, this region, of course, has a very specific history a very specific geopolitical situation, and more broadly a very specific view on the rest of the world. And, of course, this is reflected in our games, although it's not something that we intentionally are trying to do. And this is a situation that we were encountering, encountering in the localization team. So despite our best efforts, some of these views got through to the players. And of course, the players responded to that. So you'll see a couple examples of what I'm talking about here. For example, during President Trump's term, he gave lots of chances for us to air basically. So this is a task that was tweeted by one of our players from one of our games, about a garden wall that the player needed to build. And of course, this was during the time when Trump was talking about his border wall. So players saw a sort of secret political agenda, where we didn't intend it to drain the swamp is another thing that we encountered we literally one player straight in a swamp. But they thought maybe we're talking about Trump's views in Washington, DC. Gender roles are another thing that we talked a lot about, between our team and the developers. So what's normal for people and family to do different views on what people do based on their gender, which sometimes can be quite different. So we're in the situation, and we need to find a way of addressing it. And what we turn to in our situation is culturalization. So culturalization, very, very simple terms. I could probably talk about this for hours. But I try not to do that. We can think of it in two ways. So a reactive culturalization, which is when you have beautiful concepts, everything's animated, published. In the game, everything's written, and it's in the players hands. And the players respond to it not in the way that you intended them to. Because you maybe didn't quite know about how they see what you're making, and how that might be different from what you're making. So the two examples and previous slide, you can think of, here's specifically, we're looking at what we call our eastern area and one of our games. So it's a garden area, it was even called oriental area. At first, which players did not like at all, they saw sort of racist overtones to that term. So we corrected that very quickly. But still, we had this mix of cultures here. And if you know anything about, again, the geopolitical situation in East Asia, you know that China, Korea, Japan aren't always on the very best terms. And players are also aware of that. And they weren't very happy about seeing all of these cultures mixed together, and presented as something homogenous. The main character for this area is a great example of that he's Akira, and he's wearing a robe that sort of references to Chinese traditional robes. So we've got China and Japan next together right there. The issue with React, reacting to things, it's one of the things is that it's really hard to fix problems. In this sort of philosophy we use with reactive culturalization is trying to find the most minimal changes to the content to make it palatable to players. But that's sometimes really hard, especially in something like this, where everything's done. And it's just really expensive to fix after the fact. So that's why we like to focus on another kind of culturalization. This is proactive, culturalization. So this is where you're working with the developers at the very beginning. And throughout the development process to try and find content, not only that will be interesting for people all over the world, maybe a bit of exoticism, for example, but also with things that are relevant and interesting to the players that it's actually whose culture is being represented. So you can see in this area, generally some pyramids there. But also, there's some small interesting details that unless you're familiar with Egypt, for example, you wouldn't know necessarily, for example, the developers wanting to add a sort of corn boil, which you can see these pictures at the bottom. We suggested changing that to a grill because that would be something that seems more natural to players in that region. So it's very small detail, but also with bigger things like this character that you see here. So our expert actually helped us develop him as somebody that's kind of looks maybe like people from that region or It looks like somebody that they can identify with very least. So that's a little bit about culturalization. Very briefly. So what do we do with it? Well, we want to tell you about our processes. And we could break it down in many different ways. But what we decided to do was to sort of reflect our team. So we have different areas of responsibility. And one of the first areas that sort of loosely reflects our roles is about education. So when we're thinking about culturalization, and how to implement it, we realized that we needed to explain to people why they should think about this, or why is this something that could actually bring extra value to the games. So I'll tell you a little bit more about that in a second. Natasha will be telling you about how we communicate with people within the company. So people have different positions in the company, information flow, sharing knowledge, this sort of thing. And lastly, Lowry will be telling you about her area, which is I like to think about as like her physical, the physical things we create. But of course, this is all electronic. So it's not really physical. But it's like the the things, the things that are more tangible things in some way that are static, that people in the company can come to themselves and use different ways and create different processes, maybe for themselves. It's kind of like the legacy that we're leaving for people. All right. And yes, so when you have this all together, it's a very delicious, beautiful recipe. And I did mention a bonus. So as we're talking, maybe it would be interesting for you to think about the common thread that runs through everything that we're saying. And of course, at the very end, we'll tell you what we had in mind. So education, first of all, I shouldn't say actually, that maybe education isn't the best word. Because I'm thinking about education in a very broad way. So it's actually like the foundation that we've built our whole process on. And I'm thinking about it more about how we know things and the company, how we make decisions, what information we use, what knowledge do we base that on, because anyone who knows anything about working between cultures is that everything's relative. And that's no exception. Of course, when you're thinking about working with content that represents different places. So we had a situation, we had some issues that we needed to deal with, that we couldn't deal with through our oral processes and localization. My manager came to me, she said, basically, we have this thing, this thing called culturalization exists, maybe it will help us with a situation, why don't you take that on? I said, Great, that sounds exciting. But I had no idea what actually that hole meant. So basically, I had to learn. And luckily, culturalization is not something that's new. There's lots of information all over the internet. So lots of resources. Kate Edwards, of course, is like the big guru of culturalization, the founder, she's helped us. Yeah, everywhere. But the main thing was figuring out not specifically what the results that we were coming across, that we wanted to alter, but specifically, what was causing these situations that were responding to them? So what is the actual issue? And what can we do to actually address them? So it was sort of like a lot of reflection discussion. I wrote a basic, basically a manifesto. But anyway, the next thing we had to think about was how we communicate. So for example, we have our localization team that's working with a development team. These people are from very different places. He's like physically, also, maybe geopolitically as well. So how did we how can we communicate and bridge these groups of people so that information not only is flowing, but that everybody trusts each other so that we all know that we're working towards sort of a common goal. We're not trying to push some sort of agenda, we're just trying to make a game that everybody could love. So we need to add to think a lot about that, and how we could address that through education specifically, and talking conversations. A really big key to the way we work is the fact that there's only three people. And of course, if we try to control everything in the company, we're just going to create a huge bottleneck. Everybody's going to hate us. We're going to be like censors, and it's just going to be a big disaster and not we're not going to get very far. So that's why we focus a lot on independence. So this sort of reflects the resources that louder we'll be talking about making things that people want to make that they can integrate into their own development processes. Yeah, keeping everybody happy and independently able to make their own decisions about things. We help them, of course, if they need to. Just a very quick example, about something that we've done through education was a workshop that we put on last summer. This was for our localization team. And it was response to a very specific situation about feedback. So of course, we're very lucky to have a very dynamic active localization team with lots of knowledge. And they're very ready to give feedback. The issue that we were encountering, though, is they didn't really know how the developers worked. So for example, they would notice some issues. But they were responding specifically, specifically to the issues, not to what was causing the issues. And of course, knowing where you're going wrong is a much better thing to know than what you've done wrong. It's nothing that you can actually work with if you're a developer, for example. So what we did is we set up a situation where the localizer localizers, basically became developers. And we consulted with our developers learn how they created characters. And we made a sort of mini version of this. The key though, was, our localization team wouldn't be creating a character from a culture that they're not very familiar with. So we actually had them create a Russian character. And it was very interesting to see the results of that they had very different, really interesting results, really exciting results. Some things we even passed on to the game developers to us. But I think what was most interesting for me, and I hope for the team, as well to see was that they made the same sort of, I don't want to say mistakes, but they made the same kind of choices that the developers might make when they make content about a culture that they don't know. So things that don't actually look that great. So Russian people, for example, or some stereotypes that they don't actually like to see. And it was really exciting to talk about the localization team afterwards to discuss how that happened. So that when they're giving feedback, they can understand where where the sort of where the path, maybe it takes a wrong turn. So again, culture, education, in all its different forms was really important for us to get started. But I think communication especially has been really important for us. And with that, I'm going to change give word rather to Natasha, who will take over from here.

Natalia Yatsenko 17:47
Thank you so much, Lloyd. Yes, that's a very fair point, of course, communication and education, they come hand in hand. And no matter how amazing your ideas are, and your solutions, if you cannot get those ideas across, they cannot be of much help. So that's what we've been focusing on. Mainly in the last several years. It's basically establishing and maintaining contact, and communication within our team outside our team, working towards making our games more relevant, relatable to people in different regions. So in terms of communication, we see it in three main areas, its communication, within our team communication with external experts, and communication with our players. So of course, everything begins with a team, how they say everything, everything begins with a family in the following the same logics, it's in the team. So unless we're all let's say, on the same page, inside our little nutso little, these days, family, it's really hard to bring a kind of our vision outside the company. So we started very, very slowly beginning with, like Lloyd saying set before given feedback on some content that already has been created, and hoping that that feedback would be taken into account, sometimes it wouldn't be taken into account. So we will gradually think how else we can communicate with our own colleagues to make ourselves heard, but also considering their opinions. So in the process, of course, there would be some arguments, discussions, and somehow we would always find common grounds and some solution that could work for everyone. But no matter how obvious it is, but as soon as we realized that actually having one call with people over zoom, so so many issues at the same time, because Flex is a distributed team, everyone is working from all over the world. And if we're lucky, we see each other offline once a year, which is obviously not enough and it's impossible to see everyone and talk to everyone. So that was one of these So one of the realizations that as soon as we can talk, as long as we can talk to each other, even on Zoom face to face, it's always way easier to find the best solution and to talk and to joke and to see each other faces. So that's a large part of communication, especially in our digitalized world. So that idea also gave us another thing to think about, which is workshops and webinars. So at the beginning, we were promoting the idea to our teams, different other teams within playrix. And gradually, people started approaching us with a list of questions, which we will be happy to answer, of course, concerning local concerning collateralization. So that would, first of all, that will give us an opportunity to answer the questions and spread the word about credit culturalization, across the company. But also, we will share our various tips and tricks and our processes how we work. So again, encouraging independence in our colleagues and explaining that culturalization is not something that only we exclusively can do, it's more about the approach for creating content, whether it's texts or artwork doesn't matter. So that's one of the exciting parts. And apart from zoom, there are some other tools that we are using actively one of them is slack, it's our corporate messenger. And in Slack, we use a so called Creative so called collateralization channel. So it's more of an informal platform for people to ask smart questions, exchange opinions, we post a lot of articles and useful information and materials that louder we'll be talking in more detail later on. So basically, we use the culturalization channel to solve some smaller issues. So one of the recent examples, for example, is that one of the characters, they wanted one of the characters to say that to prove that he is married, he can show the stamp in his passport. And just in the comments to this post in the channel, we'll quickly solve the issue explaining that for many countries in the world, that would not be the case, because in so many countries, there is no such thing as an internal passport, unlike Russia, and there is no such thing as a stamp in your passport to prove that you're married. So for smaller issues like that, this is a very useful tool that we love. And it's lovely and pretty amazing. And Asana is a track a task tracking and managing managing tool that we've been using for years. And for culturalization purposes, we use it mainly for bigger issues. So for example, if a new game is about to be released, at a certain stage of the game developers would approach us to provide them with the culturalization feedback. And that would be structured differently, we would create focus groups, we would invite experts collecting feedback from everyone then assembling it, translate it into Russian and reporting back. So for bigger things like that. Another fun tool that's been recently added to our toolbox is the so called culturalization expert bot, which is an automation tool that we created to work in Asana. So if before that, whenever anyone had to create a culturalization task, or ask us about something big, they would write to us directly. And this way, we would lose a lot of information, we couldn't keep track of the tasks. So this little box, this little automation tool, allowed us to first of all, create the archive of all the previous tasks. So Should anyone approach us with a similar one, we would already be able to quickly find the information that we need. So we are very, very, very happy about this little tool. But speaking of real life experts, I think it's fair to say that each one of us we've been in the role of experts before and it depends on how what kind of questions we're talking about. So if it's something simple, something simple that requires simply googling things, or doing your little research, we can do it ourselves. If it's something more original or culture specific, we can always turn to our in house localization team because we have people working from all different cultures and countries. So for example, if in one of the games, the game designers work to create an event about let's say, the Lunar New Year, we are turning to our side of the team who actually celebrate this holiday and they are like firsthand information that we can use and adjust some of the decisions made by the game designers. And we turn to external experts which Once again, the fun part because who are the external experts? These are the people that we managed to find. Sometimes it's our friends, acquaintances. Sometimes if we dig deeper, we managed to find experts who specialize in this area of knowledge. For example, the Egypt themed area that Lloyd showed before. For that piece of artwork, we found a in an expert who's lived in Egypt for 20 years. And she actually specializes in Egyptian culture and cross cultural communication. So it was a perfect match. And she provided us with incredible feedback that ended up affecting a lot of decisions in the game in the end. Of course, rewarding the experts is a very important part and a fun part as well. Because sometimes you will just send some little bits and pieces some souvenirs to the people around the world who have been helping us. But recently, we've also started using SmartCAT as a payment tool, which might not seem like the financial aspect might not seem like an important part of the communication process. But it actually is because it improves the communication workwise and trust and helps building trust in the end. And the last area of communication that we're still just starting to explore is communicating with our players. So maybe it's it might seem very obvious and straightforward that because we're getting feedback from our players all the time, it's only fair that we would probably ask them questions ourselves. But we only started doing that recently. And one of our first experiences was to create a survey about our holiday and Christmas themed events in one of our games. We wanted to make the survey two weeks long, but after receiving a few 1000 responses in the first couple of days, we decided to shorten it to three days. But we still received a couple 1000 several 1000 responses, managed to analyze them successfully. And we received incredible feedback from the players, about the events about the game in general about the storyline. And we could actually see how immersed people are in our game and how loyal they are. So in this case, in this little example, although we were wondering about the holiday and Christmas events, in let's say Western understanding, one of these players, one of the players actually suggested Why don't we look into Indian celebrations or Persian celebration were African ones. So we really love that suggestion. And hopefully, and maybe at some point, we're going to introduce some of these new features. And another aspect that we are only looking into now another idea that we're just starting to develop is culture trusts. In and it's something that we only found out recently about the example is in delays in the last animated movie by Pixar called so this is something what they call director at Camp Powers was talking about in the podcast and interviews that they created an internal culture trusts of people, of black employees in Pixar, in order to represent the black culture in the movie most accurately. And that idea is incredible. And that definitely something we as a company who create content about different cultures and countries all the time. It seems like such a refreshing idea because we have this incredible resource who are our players, and the most loyal ones, we assume, would be very happy to actually become part of the development process. So this is something that we're just only starting working on. And hopefully we're going to be successful in that area as well. So is there a recipe for successful culturalization communication? We don't know, maybe there is one. But what we've managed to figure out over this years that the most important thing is to acknowledge that no one has all the answers, and no one has all the correct answers and solutions either. So the only way to create something that would be relatable and immersive to the players around the world is to have an open conversation and being able to accept opinions that are even conflicting to yours. Because at the end of the day, it's not about our personal views. It's about what would make our games more relatable to our player. And of course having fun as we do that. This is my part of the presentation when we're talking about communication Now I'm going to give the work to Laura, who will be talking about resources in more detail. So thank you very much.

Laura Linares 30:09
So much Natalia. And thank you for having us here. As to very quickly the third area of expertise, I suppose we use in culturalization of playrix. As you can see, we have a very dynamic set of processes in the areas of education, and communication. But these are facilitated by a solid kind of resource base and database of resources that we have built. And we keep updating. So what what I call the well stocked pantry, where people can go in and take the ingredients they need and take the information they need to to also funds as Lloyd was mentioned, because of course, as a team of three in a large company, we can only do that so much. So we want people to be engaged and find sometimes their own information. So I've divided the resources into three types. The bread and butter, on the one hand are the essential ingredients for the day to day nutrition, which are related to guidelines and general ideas about culturalization. The kitchen essentials are the tools of the tree that we need to cook our culturalization processes. And then the cherry on the cake, which is very related to what Natalia was saying about communication, which are more dynamic channels of discussion, and engagement. If I guess I started on the next slide with the bread and butter, I would talk about two specific things. One is a more kind of philosophical, cotton type of content, which talks about the bog bodies culturalization and playrix. That why why do we do culturalization? How do we understand culturalization. And on the next slide, you have an example of a small part of a section where we introduced the idea of culturalization. And how we understand this to be sort of this section and I must say these resources live in our knowledge base. So everybody in the company uses that sort of internal wiki. So they're familiar with the navigation, etc, to make it easier. And here, what we want to explain or what we want to create is a sort of Start Here section for people who might not be familiar with culturalization, where we talk about our team, etc. And then once that's kind of done and dusted, we will to more pragmatic and practical examples and templates to make everybody's life a little bit easier. So on the one hand, people who need to ask questions have a template that they can use to not have to start from scratch and spend more time defining their question. And people who are giving feedback also guest their questions in a standardized format. So they can easily identified the aspects that they are going to comment on. So this is our bread and butter. But we also need some tools to facilitate our process. So these are the tools of the plate. And I also have divided them into different types. One is much more direct question as a sort of back round. So on the one hand, we have the list of non risks. And I have an example here on the next slide, perhaps an example that you all know already because I think it has been debated Now recently, for websites as well. But here we were making a annoyingly political statement about English sort of being represented by the UK and Spanish being represented by Spain when we when we know that speak English and Spanish, but are not from those countries. So the flag has since disappeared. And this has been put into our knowledge base so that people can refer to it if they need information. So there's just a couple of lines explaining what the issue was, and then what it was done to solve that with a lot of things. And then we also have a series of articles about different aspects and issues that our team of localization experts write on my, this is my chance to thank them because this is really the soul of area. So they spend a lot of time crafting those articles about things that are interesting to them, or things that represent the culture in different ways, and share with people who might not be familiar with them. And they can create more knowledge and discussion and exchange. So these articles also live in the knowledge base, but we also share them in our more dynamic channels of communication. So this cherry on the cake that I was talking about. At the end of the day, our best and most important resource are colleagues. So fostering communication and engagement among them is really important. Natalia was already explained that we use both slack and Asana for different types of tasks. And here on the next slide, we have an example of one of the slack posts that I've that I've made about an article that had been written that create a lot of A lot of engagement and discussion. This also helps us remind people that that knowledge base with articles exists can then go back and refer to us and keep it in mind as they work on their day to day tasks. And we also have the Asana tasks for more formal feedback instances. For example, here you have a question about feedback about a new character. So this, again, combines the dynamic aspect of things when people are responding to this sort of in real time, or in the in the days after the question is posed. But then we also store these tasks and reuse them when we need to for events that might be recurrent, and might cause problems every year like Halloween, or the holiday season, Lunar New Year, etc. So these are dynamic, but also then are stored in our database of increasing knowledge about culture, like facial, and they also fostered that independence that we were talking about. So this is it from me. But of course, you're waiting for the bonus. So you might have thought about already as we were speaking, so just give the floor back to Lloyd to reveal it to you. Thanks very much.

Bryan Montpetit 36:09
And before we actually do reveal it, if you don't mind me interrupting, I apologize, because we did have a couple of questions. And I know that people have expressed a lot of interest in the slide deck itself. So perhaps we may want to feel those two questions. And then and then reveal the bonus if you don't mind me kind of common during your presentation. All right. I apologize for the brief interruption, but Carmen Romano has asked how do you justify the collateralization of a product into one locale versus another? Do you use tears?

Lloyd Morin 36:41
So I mentioned that we have our main markets, basically. So markets are the most important thing where we make our most money. So for example, most of our games we don't say directly, but are sort of loosely set in America. So a lot of the content in our games reflects that. But the people making the games actually live in America. So their views on what things are like in America don't always match reality. But sometimes we also have events that are targeted towards specific locales we've mentioned for example, Lunar New Year, which normally in our games have been very China focused. But we also try to include Korean content as well, because it's also a very important market for us. And they also celebrate Lunar New Year. And yeah, so it just depends. So if we're sometimes using sort of area or culture in a way, that's sort of like, something like exotic also. And when we do that, we try to convince the developers not only to take that view, but also to think about the people who are actually living in that area, because they're also our players. So we don't want them to feel like we're just using their culture we really are excited about including them in the discussion so that they're helping us to make things that make sense to them and that they want to see. So yes, tears. But mace basically, market is money is what decides a lot of what we do.

Bryan Montpetit 38:12
Excellent, thank you for that answer, I appreciate that. I'll let you reveal the bonus, we are moving into a break. So we do want to give people enough time to run off and get their coffee and water and everything else that they may need. So please do do reveal the bonus, I'll give you the floor for another minute and move on.

Lloyd Morin 38:30
So like Tada, basically, it's what I just said, to be honest. So this just engaging people in our company, so at different positions within the development process and different teams, and ownership. So letting them know that they see something that looks strange to them, that they can speak up, and that we can discuss it and find ways to address it. And like I said, it's really exciting for us to be able to do that with people from the specific places that we're creating content about. So this idea of engagement, ownership, just talking and talking and finding solutions that work for everyone.

Bryan Montpetit 39:08
Great. I mean, thank you so much for the chat was very active during your presentation. So thank you so much for spending time with us and taking us through the culturalization. It's, I think eye opening for a lot of people, I think it's something as I mentioned earlier should be at the forefront of our discussions. So please accept my thanks. I wish you the best of evenings or day, depending where you are. And what we're going to do is we're going to launch a poll briefly to get some feedback for you. And with that, we're also going to go into a break and come back with another host and some more presentations for you. So thanks again, everyone. I appreciate you helping us out