Panel: Rising Tides - Filling the education gap in L10n through mentorship and coaching

Bryan Montpetit 00:00
Hey everyone, we're back. Welcome back, I'm hope, I hope you had a good break, and that you're ready for some more content because we have an awesome panel coming up. So we've got a panel that's called Rising Tides, filling the education gap and localization, through mentorship and coaching. So this is something that I actually, personally really, really believe in. So I'm very, very excited to see what and listen, of course, to what these individuals are gonna have to say, there, Tucker, how you doing?

Tucker Johnson 00:35
Good. Thanks for having me. Hello. Great.

Bryan Montpetit 00:37
So this is going to be an awesome panel. I know it is. I'm gonna let you introduce everyone on the panel. And then I will hop back in later on when it's time. But if you need anything, just, you know, wave your arms, make a sign, I'll jump back in and try and help it.

Tucker Johnson 00:53
Yes, sir. Thank you so much. And for those of you in the audience, I understand that if you'd like to ask questions live during the panel, raise your hand, I won't be able to see it. But Brian is over here helping us out and he's going to be moderating all of that stuff. We've got an exciting panel here for you today, guys. For those of you that don't know me, my name is Tucker Johnson. I'm one of the cofounders of a company called MC insights. We do market research and consulting for the language services industry. We I'm also involved with multilingual media, which publishes multilingual magazine, and I'm the author of the general theory of the translation company. Lots of stuff, I'm just trying to qualify myself here, like, Who is this guy? And why is he up here moderating this discussion. And the reality of it is I'm up here moderating this discussion, because one of the panelists you got asked me to, and thank you. So first of all, I'd like to start off by thanking Yuka, for allowing me to do this, as well as all of our other panels. Throughout my career, I've had some great managers and mentors, and I really owe a lot to them. And I like to think that I try my best to help guide people on our industry who may benefit from it, because I personally owe a lot to the people that came before me. And today, I'm moderating this discussion with four established leaders in the respective niches niches in this industry, who have found themselves in a similar situation. Everybody on the stage has been coached and mentored, managed, guided by those that came before them. And today, we can hopefully brainstorm together on how we can pay that forward together as individuals and as an industry. So without further ado, I'm going to introduce our panelists. I'm just going to go around here rather than opening it up for everybody to introduce themselves. I'd like to start with Chris. Here. Well, I will say interrupt me if I slaughter anybody's names if I mispronounce anybody's name. Got it. Right. All right. So Chris girl, Chris is just had the opportunity to meet Chris last week for the first time and just very interesting character, very dynamic person. He's the principal owner at inner works consulting. He's an executive coach. He's an author, he's a speaker does lots of leadership consulting, but really specializing on cultural intelligence and leadership assessments. We also have me Hall who just joined the stage perfect timing. I'm introducing you sir. He's the senior localization leader with over 15 years of successful international team and program management experience at technology companies specializing in strategic localization operations in EMEA and Asia Pacific region. He's a lead by example type of guy focusing on Team empowerment, constant innovation and operational excellence, excellence. He is currently serving the industry as senior localization manager at PayPal. And next we have Yuka Nakasone, who I've already introduced, but I'm going to tell a little bit more. She's the Chief Strategist at global bridge and an industry veteran you because she's been talking quite a bit with Yuka. Recently, she's got a lot of good stuff to say. And she recently became a certified, certified which I'm going to let you talk a little bit about later, you gotta want to steal your thunder here. And last but not least, Alison furred. She was, of course, the executive director over at Gala, which is, as you will know, the globalization and localization Association. She's got a lot of good stuff, particularly from the Association and networking standpoint there. So lots of expertise on the stage, we do have limited time. So I'd like to dive right in. I'm going to be moderating, which is to say that asking questions, keep the conversation going, but please, audience feel free to jump in with questions, either in the chat or raise your hands so Brian can bring you up here live. And likewise, guys engage with each other. I'll know I've done a great moderation job. If I don't have to say a single thing this whole time. conversation just keeps going. So don't be shy. To start off, hot, hot topic. Let's define our terms. We're talking about mentorship and coaching in the language services industry. What is the difference between a mentor and a coach? I'm gonna throw this one over to you Yuka because we've already kind of talked a little bit about this. And we have quite a bit to say, hey everybody that's just not talking, just please mute yourself.

Allison Ferch 05:18
Hi, everyone. Nice seeing you. And thank you for coming to the session, because this is a very exciting session that we don't talk about coaching and mentoring too much. I mean, there are lots of mentoring programs in some organizations in the industry. But I didn't hear any sessions around conferences. I may be wrong. But I didn't hear much. So that's reason why we wanted to call out to talk about it in public, what's the difference? And what we can do? And what's the, and coaching and mentoring? First of all, let's put it something visual coaching is to take somebody to attain the goal, but holding the mirrors. Meaning, yeah, holding the mirrors. So the answer should be in the person you're talking to the person you're coaching. So the person should be coachable, which means they have to be accepting and receptive and reflective. And droll, that the answers within from within see

Tucker Johnson 06:45
more about like unleashing potential from inside?

Allison Ferch 06:48
Yes. If you can, if you can listen to a person, if you can ask good questions to navigate towards the goal. And if you can care, you can be a coach. Right? That's, that's, that's the kind of kind of one of the definitions maybe Michelle has another definition. But this this was my, my, this is my definition. And mentor. On the other side, there's an advisors piece coming in somebody who already attained that goal, who who already went through the path guiding through the past that person is going through. So

Tucker Johnson 07:36
along with experience, right, like, is that what you're trying to say? Or is that what you're saying?

Allison Ferch 07:42
Yeah, this is what I'm trying to say. We have to have a mentor has to have the experience of attaining that goal already. Danza done that Been there, done that kind of person and trying to make them avoid the pitfalls or mistakes, common mistakes? Because usually, we know from our experiences, that what we don't have to do, rather than you know, not saying this is the way this is not the way because, yeah, pitfalls and

Yuka Nakasone 08:27
mistakes.

Allison Ferch 08:29
Yeah, that's a kind of definition I have. And Chris is saying,

Kris Girrell 08:35
Can I Can I just add so so both of them talk or both a mentor and a coach have real actual experience. The difference being that the mentor is is a subject matter expert on the cultural terrain of corporations have LSPs of vendors have, you know, of all the different iterations in the industry, they know the territory, and so they can explain what what it takes to go from here to here. Experience what is the coach's real experience is an expert on how people learn. You know, I don't I never claim to be a CEO and I yet to presidents all the time, you know, it's not that I have sat in that seat. It's that I know how to learn what those people need to learn. And I can teach that process by by the way I question in a way that I pulled things out. So two completely different functions around the same desire to move forward in one's career. You know, are you getting some of that we'll get you'll get through the mentor who knows the you know, the markers on the blazes on the trail, you know and knows which way to go. The unfortunate problem in both of those areas There are far too few mentors, and far too few coaches who really have experience in driving people through their own career development. And and is you and I were talking about this subject, you know, what we're trying to do is see if we can elevate more people into the role of peer coaching. Because we do have a dearth of mentors, by the way has a sound level on here, I just need to check on them in a public space.

Tucker Johnson 10:29
Horrible, we can hear everything. Oh, I'm so sorry. We don't know. We can hear you just fine. We can hear you. Thanks. Excellent points, excellent points. And I like to use the like the sports analogy of you don't have to be able to you don't have to be the best quarterback in the league in order to coach a team to victory at the Super Bowl. And it's a very American analogy. Maybe someone else has something. Allison, what are your thoughts on all this?

Allison Ferch 10:58
I'd like to add that those are one on one relationships. Generally speaking, I think mentorship can also be done in small groups. But I also want to call people's attention to the value of unstructured coaching and unstructured mentorship that can happen in a peer group, or in a community. And for me, coming from gala community is the heart of associations. And one of the things that we try to do is bring people together so that they can share with one another learn inspire each other. And that's informal, which can have wonderful outcomes, too.

Tucker Johnson 11:36
I agree. How my challenge with informal is, like, how do I find informal? Like, there's no website for informal, right? Well, there's the Gallo website, right? There's the you can go to gala events, and gala webinars and build community there. But informal. For me. I like informal because everyone involved kind of has to work for it. If it's informal, nothing's handed to you. There's no app that just connects people with mentors, mentees, and I haven't seen anything. I've seen situations where it's too easy to get paired up with a mentor or mentee, it doesn't really do that. Well, because nobody really had to work for it. It's just my personal opinion. We call you've been quiet over there.

Michal Antczak 12:22
I've been quiet. I was like, Well, I have to hold your state of shock because my computer decided to throw a blue screen when I was signing. All right. Yeah. Yeah, of course. But anyway, I think one area, you also need to keep in mind that is that is that there is also this whole area of coaching, coaching the entire teams. So it's not only pure and unstructured, right? It's also actually very structured, kind of working together, through whole teams, on addressing their dynamics on and growing them on making them realize how they can benefit from their strengths. How can they, how they can eliminate their weaknesses, their dysfunctions, right? To basically become better, stronger. And that that, coupled with the individual coaching, that really shows the power. But

Tucker Johnson 13:23
let's qualify that really quickly. For those that may not understand what you say peer to peer coaching, define that. What does that what are we talking about when we're talking about peer to peer coaching?

Michal Antczak 13:32
I just, I just alluded to what what Allison said, Right? Oh, okay. She mentioned in formal peer kind of, okay, so the same thing, more formalized, but working with all teams, rather than just with individuals, because teams like individuals, they have their weaknesses they need to work through, they need to realize themselves, they need to resolve within themselves, rather than have somebody come in and, and just tell them what to do and how to work better.

Tucker Johnson 14:00
Which is really good point. And one of the topics I want to cover today, and I'll throw this out there for whoever would like to go first is what are the differences between coaching in or coaching or mentoring, whichever, and the definition that we're using here is coaching is more cheerleading, guiding, helping someone get towards a goal, right? Mentorship is more of a, you know, someone who's been there done that learn from my mistakes type situation, there's a time and a place for both. But where is that time in place for both of them? And Mon, perhaps this is maybe another question. But where is the overlap between the traditional official manager, direct report mentorship, because there's a certain amount of professional mentorship that by definition goes on between a manager and their employee. And what's the difference between that relationship and an external one? Yes, sir.

Kris Girrell 15:02
Right. So, so a couple of things that I want to throw into the mix, you know, one is either mentoring or coaching should never be the substitute for a good manager managee relationship that should always be the primary source. And, and wherever you can get coaching from your boss or your upline manager, wherever you can get mentorship from those people upline from you in your in your position, that's really, you know, that's really ideal. The mentor and the coach are often a drop in, I always see my job as a coach to give the person back to the manager in a better state than what I took them. So, you know, so there is some overlap in the overlap is that the manager, him or herself should be able to mentor and coach, a lot of them aren't trained on that. Right. You know, and, and coaching is not cheerleading coaching is really asking, I

Tucker Johnson 16:04
never, I was gonna get flack for it, I'm sorry. But I've

Kris Girrell 16:08
never been accused of being a cheerleader. I'm like, people come out of coaching sessions with me, and they're sweating. You know, because we work hard. We, you know, we ask the tough questions. Always cause them to think.

Tucker Johnson 16:21
Which leads me to another question here. And once again, I don't want to monopolize anybody jump in here. But what is is a coach supposed to be making you feel better about yourself? empathetic, nurturing? Or is a coach supposed to push you out of your comfort zone and kind of crack the whip? Or is there different different coaches for different people?

Kris Girrell 16:45
Yes, yes. And yes.

Allison Ferch 16:47
I think I think I can try this one. You have to think, uh huh,

Tucker Johnson 16:56
you got this? I know, I know you go. Because you and I've talked about this quite a bit.

Allison Ferch 17:02
Just do it. Right. So the coach shouldn't be seeking to be nice. But true to the person you're coaching, which means maybe you have to say something not nice, but it's good for them. Right? So yeah. And I, I have a professional coach coaching me. And it's been four or five years now. And he never seeks to be nice. And sometimes he calls me on the sideline. When when we are doing group coaching, and after that, he calls me out saying, what happened in the session? And it scares me, but that's how

Tucker Johnson 17:57
it should be. You're saying yeah, I'm saying like, that's good, because it's leading you to grow.

Allison Ferch 18:02
Yeah. And he always challenges me challenges me. So it's not nice. But that's why I grew, you know,

Tucker Johnson 18:12
excellent point. Who else who else has worked with the coach, who else has been challenged by a coach or not challenged hard enough by a coach on this,

Michal Antczak 18:25
I wouldn't say if you're not challenged by a coach, and the coach is really, you shouldn't really be wasting the time there. Right? It's not about the coach, perhaps it might be about yourself. But if you're not learning, or not getting help from that particular person from the coach, to get out of your comfort zone, right, then perhaps you had no reason to coach in the first place. Right? And go ahead, because

Kris Girrell 18:54
you're intuitive, is another way to saying intuitive is, if the next step were intuitively obvious to you, you would do it. So what the coach's job is, is to ask you a question to get you out of the normal way of thinking, the intuitive way of thinking and, and challenge your thoughts.

Allison Ferch 19:16
That you have the intent

Kris Girrell 19:18
of doing and being in in whatever it is that you're trying to learn. So, we were always outside of what seems to be logical, you know, from the outside. If somebody were listening to a coaching session in there, you know, their normal thought process is, oh, well, the next thing she should do is this, the next thing after that is that and then they hear my question, they go like, where are you coming from? where I'm coming from is a counter intuitive place that's pulling them forward in their logic, not taking the next step that's obvious to them.

Tucker Johnson 19:54
I was I'm sorry, you

Allison Ferch 19:58
know, at the same time, is, it's it's not just counterintuitive, it may sense what Chris said. But sometimes what we are avoiding going, coach can see it. Because of our personal experiences in the past, or maybe trauma. We don't want to go there, we just avoid unconsciously and when sees it, he or she can call it out. And then maybe, you know, there's a breakthrough, something.

Tucker Johnson 20:35
Sometimes it's easier to notice, it's certainly easier to notice out loud, you know, flaws and other people, things that other people need to improve on, rather than ourselves. I find that's true, too. It's just it's one thing that we've missed with the quarantining is that social feedback from people, you know, just hearing from people, how am I doing? How am I doing? How am I doing? And we used to get that every day, at the office, you make a bad joke, and people go, you know, that social feedback, right there is like, Oh, well, I'm not as funny as I thought I was. Right. And nowadays, it's like, we're all just sitting here, you know, talking to screens, and we're not getting that social feedback. And Allison, I wanted to ask you, because it's kind of leads, and then I'm going to get to some questions here. I just noticed, we have questions as this awesome, great question makes my job easy. But with the Association, this seems like an opportunity where in an informal kind of association setting where you're just around a lot of people networking, these relationships can kind of self select, and people can kind of fall in with different people who maybe fit their needs. How does how have you seen that happen organically? How typically, would people who are coming to an association like yours? That's what you know? What does that process look like? Right? Where do they meet people? How does the conversation starts?

Unknown Speaker 21:53
And it depends on the context. First, I just want to echo what you said, which is that when we're at home, working from home, and more isolated, I think, coaching and mentoring and what Michelle said about team dynamics and team efficiencies, and optimization becomes even more important, because everybody's in a bit of like an echo chamber with themselves. And so I'd like to make an appeal to managers and leaders that are on the call to not neglect their teams, and not neglect their team's professional development. Coaching is often a topic that is discussed among the C suite, right. But I think that mentorship and coaching is also really valuable for junior managers or middle managers or people that are just starting their careers. In fact, you know, part of the headline of the or the title of this session is about, you know, kind of the talent gap. So, so just to echo what you said, Tucker, I think now is not the time to you know, protect the Oh, the investments and cut professional development, but to invest in it. As far as associations go, what I was saying about the context, it's really easy at events when we're in person, because you have a lot of informal opportunities, you have meals and breaks, you have social events that are designed for networking. And we've all experienced having somebody in the chat was referring to resonance. We've all experienced that before where you feel like, yes, we click we understand each other, and we're talking about the same challenges. Let's connect again. And so we see that happen a lot at events. Then when we're not meeting in person, we see it happen on an online forum. So a gala, we have special interest groups, what are you know, they're small, small events, let's call them with like, 1015 25 people and same thing, you can get a sense of a person that you're working on the same challenge, or you might you really liked their style, or you liked the way they discussed a particular challenge that they had. So then you you make kind of a just an informal outreach to them. And I think associations are, you know, you've kind of vetted everybody at the outset because they're there because they care. They care about their own professional development, they care about the growth and development of their company, and they care about the industry. So right off the bat, you know, that people are like minded in a certain sense.

Tucker Johnson 24:20
Excellent points. Thank you, Allison to

Kris Girrell 24:22
piggyback just on something Allison said, you know, with regard to to, you know, a lot of times coaching is at the senior level or at the upper management level, and it doesn't seem to reach into the lower levels. The impetus for a lot of what we're talking about here came from the fact that there just isn't any coaching and development for a lot of language service providers, a lot of vendor you know, people who are at the end of the line level of doing this. And so, you know, what you can I have put together is some starting courses on And on how to advance your own career, you know, how do you coach yourself? And how do you develop your own career? What are the critical skills that will help me advance in a in a language profession or translation profession or, you know, whatever, you know, whatever aspect of the industry I'm in, what are those critical skills? And how do I develop those skills? And, and, you know, not only are we looking towards, you know, building, coaching, but really self coaching and self development as part of that, just because there's such a dearth that those lower levels, as Allison was saying,

Allison Ferch 25:37
yeah. anybody's wondering, this is, Chris and myself are asked by transition comunes because of the generosity of Allison to host us to present leadership development. We are asked by the it was gala Munich in 2019. Yes, much. And then translation comunes Genet approached us to develop something for their audience, they have junior people coming in, to volunteer and use a platform, and she needed some help to, to develop these professionals for for only starting. So Chris, and myself have some content, and including competency model for language industry, for transition commons, it is available there for free. If he is,

Tucker Johnson 26:41
go check it out. And that's one thing that, you know, when we started off, talking and talking about, you know, there's not as many coaches out there, we need coaches, we need mentors, right. There's not enough role models out there who are willing to give their time. And I mean, I believe you when you say that, but it seems to me like they're, I don't know, it seems to me, like when I go on Facebook or clubhouse or LinkedIn or anything, everybody's a frickin coach. And I'm not talking about just this industry. I'm just talking about any frickin 22 year old with half of a bachelor's degree and enough hair gel, can call himself an executive coach and message me on LinkedIn and tell me how to Okay, calm down, Tucker, not about you. Comments, like how to pick the snake oil salesman from the real coach. Right, and I'm not implying certainly not implying all coaches and mentors is Nico salesmen. But there are some out there that are given folks a bad name. discuss amongst yourselves. And then I promised we're going to get to the questions. No one wants to talk. No one wants to touch this one.

Kris Girrell 27:50
Because I've run into it all the time, I've been coaching longer than the we've been using the term coaching. So this gray hair here is actual real.

Tucker Johnson 27:59
And I was gonna say that's, you know, that's a selling point for me. Like, if you were to write and say like, Hey, you know, product, you know? Exactly. I'm just jealous. It's just,

Kris Girrell 28:12
yeah, seriously? That's a great question. And and, you know, the choice of a coach or a mentor is always a personal code of personal choice, and you have to pick somebody who you trust. And so your interview questions are going to be questions around, how do you trust that this person can take you to that uncomfortable place? You know, because they are going to be challenging you. This is the kind of person that you can trust with that. And so those are the kinds of questions you want to ask. But there's no there's no litmus test that you know, like the CIA can spot you coming through customs. As a snake oil salesman, or as a bad coach, that you really need to interview you need to know what you're looking for. And what kind of questions you want to ask. But the main thing is that fit? Is this a person you can trust? Who will take you to the uncomfortable places? Trust? I'd love to hear I'd love to hear some of the others take on that. Yeah,

Tucker Johnson 29:13
may call haven't heard from you for a while. What are your thoughts? Well, for me, it's

Michal Antczak 29:18
it's all about presence as somebody put in the, in the in the chat. It's hard to say I like to say that for once it is. I don't want to sound ageist but it is a little bit about that experience that the coach might have picked up might have gathered through their career. Right. It's a little above what I hear through the grapevine. It's really good to talk to your peers to find out who the right people are right. People they've worked with before. Oftentimes when you're especially if you're if you're you know to work on the bigger corporate side, you're already exposed to Coaches, right? You know where to go. But there is no like Chris said, There is no one size fits all. solution here. Whatever is good for me might be terrible for somebody else, right? I have my business and I can only have chemistry with a certain type of people.

Tucker Johnson 30:18
Good point. Good point, I would just, I will add, because it's short, I would just add if your coach, if you're comfortable with your coach, if you're if you leave every session feeling great about yourself and about your career and about the world, and about your coach, get a new coach. Get a new coach. Alright, let's get to this question. I've been I promised. Okay. Kate asks, as someone who's still a student and believes in lifelong learning, it is very important for me to learn from my mentors. But how do we pick our mentors? How do we know there is advice? Their advice is good. And I think that's that's kind of what we've been talking about. Right. But any other is particularly for students, particularly for students out there, what should students look for Allison?

Unknown Speaker 31:06
Well, I'm gonna skirt that direct question and say that that I put it in the chat actually, gala is starting a student mentorship program, we've got a bunch of like, really great names in the business, let's just say who've signed up to be mentors. And we're going to experiment with some small group mentorship cohorts and events. And that's going to start at the end of June. And I think what's tricky for students is that their networks are small to begin with. And it may feel like a big risk to reach out to somebody that they don't know yet even to just try to have a conversation. I think informational interviews are a good way to start or just to dip your toe in the water in terms of meeting people. If you're curious about what Mayhall does at PayPal, or you know how it is working for a big company, a big corporate company, then just, you know, reach out and say, Hey, I wonder if I could have 20 minutes of your time, I can't tell you how many, like ad hoc conversations I've had, especially with students or really new professionals that are trying to get a sense of the career paths, or just a way to maybe get established and I think informational interviews would be a good way or you might have a conversation with me Hall and think not for me but but then you try another one and and you just have to be a little bit brave. It's no offense to me. Hi. I think he's great. I was gonna say, I like

Tucker Johnson 32:37
what's your inbox me call she just volunteered you for?

Michal Antczak 32:42
I'm always happy. I've used that in the past, right? Because I realized, it's not going to hurt me, right? What's the worst thing that can happen? I'll be ignored. Right? The best thing that can happen is I can get 1020 30 minutes an hour of great time with a great person who will actually help me realize something, learn something. So just you know, nowadays with LinkedIn with all that just reach out, nothing will happen.

Tucker Johnson 33:11
Easy to say, right? What does that email look like? What does that LinkedIn message look like? When we say reach out? Don't

Kris Girrell 33:21
listen named Ellison said it directly. You know, I really like what I see in you. And I loved and I like to learn, you know, I don't I don't know of people who will reject that kind of a request. It how you saying you think about it? Yeah.

Allison Ferch 33:45
My expenses.

Tucker Johnson 33:48
If they reject that you don't want to be working with them anyways. Right? It's kind of a litmus test. Excellent question. That's all right. Next one. Thank you, Kate. Thank you. Had you. I'm sorry, my audio.

Allison Ferch 34:03
Just, I just wanted to add because, yeah, reach out and how I can talk about my experiences. Because I have many mentors in this industry. And thanks to them, I'm here now. And actually, what I do is really observe what they say. And when I like what they say like, like, like I said, it's exactly that. I tried to talk, start talking about things. And when I'm seeking some kind of answer, a just throw it and depending on how they react I can, I can start having more conversations and slowly meant mentoring and mentorship. So that is the kind of process. It's not like just sending an email accepting let's do it. I don't think so. From my experiences, it's a slow process of getting to know each other, and then talking some specific problems or questions, and then maybe it's going to be a little bit longer mentorship. Does it make sense?

Tucker Johnson 35:36
Yeah, that makes great sense. I mean, it's about building trust, right? It's not Tinder. Right? Yes. match.com? I don't know. That was after my dating time. But I mean, it's not something that you have to invest into. And I think this day and age, we want everything that we can just have automatically matched with a mentor as an app. That would be the expectation these days, right. And it's not that easy. Next time. It's like dating. All right, next question. Guna. How do you I'm sorry, if I'm sorry, if I'm mispronouncing your name guna grandma, NIA say, how do you how to avoid subjectivity or restrictions of thinking of the mentor? Meaning, if mentor will have an opinion that something doesn't work, mentee might overtake that belief as well, having the passive so I believe this talking about like, how, how do you deal with situations where mentors unconscious or conscious biases get transferred onto the mentee, unconscious or, or conscious inefficiencies to um, it doesn't have to be biases, it can be inefficiencies inadequacies of any form. I know. Right? That's a good question. I would say that's nobody. Okay, well, I'm the moderator. Shut up Decker.

Allison Ferch 37:00
I can try. No. I mean, I said, I have many people guiding me. So

Tucker Johnson 37:11
it's the the wisdom and the multitude of counselors, right. Yeah, usually,

Allison Ferch 37:15
I have several opinions about one question. So that's valuable. Yeah, I mean, you can't really rely on just one person is going to be a burden to the person as well. And mentorship is really a given take. I mentor people as well, but I get by mentoring, because it gives me the opportunities to go through their problems and think about it from a different perspective, or from my experiences, and that gives me some more, let's say experiences as well. And I guess the, the answer is, it's not just, it's not a marriage.

Tucker Johnson 38:19
It's, you know, it's a relationship. Yeah. Right.

Allison Ferch 38:25
Yeah. And actually, you have to say that, if you feel like somebody's is coming from there, for justice, or something feels wrong. You have to be able to say it. And that's the relationship you have to build. Right, right. really trusted relationship. Like you can say, hey, I don't think it's right. You know,

Tucker Johnson 38:58
and I think we don't have to agree.

Kris Girrell 39:01
Yeah, one of the differences with coaching is, is that I have no opinion.

Tucker Johnson 39:07
Right? Oh, and that might be a coach and a mentor, right there.

Kris Girrell 39:11
Exactly. I don't have an opinion on what the right choice to do is I'm going to ask you, you know, what are the possibilities? You know, when we're coaching somebody, what we're trying to do is, is break down the, you know, the associations, the biases, the you know, the internal structure of, of how the if then, you know, if this is my situation, then I have to do that. And, and when we're trying to coach somebody to be the new possibility, we're, the first thing we have to do is, is break that, that, you know, pre assumption that this is the this is the only choice I have, you know, like doing my job doing my career, the way I'm doing it is the only way I can Do it. In the coaches, they're saying, well, well, what else? You know, is there are there other possibilities? And we'd brainstorm possibilities. And I may have a sense that one is going to be more productive than another. And I can probably steer the questioning that. But the and it's really the plants, you know, the client's choice, and I'm going to go with what? So so let's say, Well, I think this is the best choice and go, Okay, so how many if I went, oh, so what are you going to do and what you buy when, and then I hold them to that, you know, accountability, and if it doesn't work, then we switch, we move to the next possibility and so on. But I think the difference is the mentor, having gone down the trail has some pre judged ideas of what works and what doesn't work. I don't. And so, I mean, that's going to be one of the main differences. And, and substantively, you know, the mentor and the coach are not doing the same job, they're doing two completely different things. One is helping the person to to build their own repertoire of behaviors and think outside their own box. The other is getting advice from career subject matter experts on what works in this corporation in this industry in this situation. And so it's very specific, and it's very subject related, as opposed to the generic developmental orientation of coaching.

Tucker Johnson 41:29
Excellent points. Next, I'm gonna go next question, we're gonna start rapid fire here, because there's so many good questions. Gary, Gary Loveman, if your coach or mentor was a movies Oh, no. And we're going to close with that one I want to do that one was a lightning round. So everyone get ready. If your coach or mentor was a movie star, who would that be? And why? Christopher, it's great if you find a coach or mentor, but if you're like the great majority, most can't find a great mentor. Do you have any advice on self directed coaching? Oh, here's the question. Do you have any advice on self directed coaching? And Allison? Like Yuka, you mentioned the elearning, or the workshops that you're putting together? There's a lot of good virtual stuff coming out. Now, I know virtual learnings, virtual courses, virtual workshops, what are some other resources out there for self directed learners? And as a, as the words coming out of my mouth, that is kind of an oxymoron? Self Directed coaching? Right, it's kind of defeating the purpose? Isn't that what we're talking about today? Is there a way to do self directed coaching? Chris,

Kris Girrell 42:35
yes, there is. And I think it is something that we want to talk about is, is self development, you know, in, in what, you know, what a person you know, needs to learn is, you know, that we only do as of what we see, and the judgments we make about what we see. That's the whole of human psychology is in that one sentence, people only do what they do because of what they perceive, and the meaning they affixed to that. So, so if you're self coaching, then what you're trying to say is, is there another meaning? Is there another path? Is there something else I can do outside of what I already know how to do? And so all these resources that you're pointing to Tucker, I think are great online services, online resources. And the person who's challenging themselves to to self development, or self coaching, is really looking for what's going to challenge push me beyond what I currently know.

Tucker Johnson 43:40
very eloquently, but now I feel like a jerk for saying that it was an oxymoron.

Kris Girrell 43:45
Oh, come on. That's not an oxymoron. And I you know, it's not jerky to say it's oxymoron because it does it, you know, what we started off saying was that coaching was counter intuitive, and that extra person, you know, and that still stands when you're trying to do your own coaching. I mean, I'm a lifelong somebody mentioned that they're, you know, she's a student, or just graduating and she's a lifelong learner. I'm 72 I'm still taking courses, you know, and I'm a lifelong learner and still challenging myself to learn the next thing and the next thing after that, you know, never stop,

Tucker Johnson 44:22
never stop learning.

Michal Antczak 44:25
Just just right, so self, like reading, I'm a very inquisitive person reading going to different like, you know, X talks, all these sources are wonderful, but they will never replace one thing that like, like an extra coach and other person will do, which is actually being outside of your body and taking a look at you from the outside, right. We are myopic. We do have tunnel vision, especially when it comes to ourselves. And the things that I've learned from coaches about myself, they were sometimes very painful, but they really do focused me on things. I had no idea. I had no idea about myself. Right. So really? Yeah, absolutely.

Tucker Johnson 45:09
Yeah. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. myself from jumping into, Oh, you gotta go.

Allison Ferch 45:20
I want to add something what Allison said at the beginning, that other other resources to do it is just talking about it. And we have lots of communities, including data, of course. And we have all these peers hanging together in lunch, or drinks, or conferences like this. In talking about it. I think it makes difference.

Tucker Johnson 45:57
I absolutely agree. And I will just say one thing, like I have especially noticed during 2020, how lucky how fortunate I am to have a team that was remote First, all the way, right. So like, I didn't get yanked away from my team, like we've always been remote first. And we have a very, very active chat channel, right, full of like, Bs, and gossip and funny pictures, and also full of coaching and mentorship, and just supporting each other, just supporting each other. So you never know where it's gonna come from. Alright, next question before can we mentor someone, even if we believe we haven't come that far ourselves to become a mentor? But there are some people who see us in that light? Mm hmm. Allison,

Unknown Speaker 46:48
I'm just going to say like two words, imposter syndrome. We talked about that, together when we were doing our prep call for this. And I think each one of us said that we all have suffered from it, either currently or from time to time. I think that you can learn from lots of people we've seen in the chat, you know, Gary's talking about almost this like barter arrangement, where I'll teach you internationalization best practices, and you teach me Biz Ops, and negotiation and sales or whatever. You can learn something from anybody. And if you, you know, maybe the the Fit isn't what you're looking for at that moment. So so maybe that's not going to satisfy your current challenge or the area where you want to grow in that moment. But I would say don't doubt that it's just a matter of finding the right fit something that you can offer to somebody else. And maybe there's something that they can offer to you that you're short, that you perceive to be your you're short on, you know, knowledge in a particular area. I don't know if that makes sense.

Tucker Johnson 47:52
No, it makes perfect sense to me.

Kris Girrell 47:55
Absolutely. And again, again, coming back to con, I think some of the main experiences I've ever had have been going to a conference listening to a really great keynote or, you know, breakout session leader, and then just hanging outside the door until that person came out and said, Can I continue this conversation with you? Because what you said about this, this is like and get into it, and I've had two hour conversations on the staircase, you know, with with people just learning from them, because they struck a note, you know, in their presentation. So never overlook a good conference or, you know, online course or something like that as a way to find a mentor.

Tucker Johnson 48:42
Excellent points. Anybody else? All right, let's get into this lightning round. Well, we have 10 minutes left, but Lord knows how long this can take. If you hadn't if your coach was a movie star, who would have been why? You guys have had time to think about this. I haven't had a chance to look at the chat yet. So I poked over there good conversation going on in the chat. Thanks for that case. It's going first.

Unknown Speaker 49:08
I'll start because somebody came to mind right away, and it's Emma Thompson. Emma Thompson, I think for me, and I'm gonna skip half the things that are important because this list could go on and on and on. She to me exemplifies wisdom with age. And so a person who's Aging Gracefully and is, you know, sort of reaching that era, that period of her life where she's she's just wise, she's learned a lot of stuff. She's a feminist. She's funny. She has a pretty interesting history and life experience where you know that she's had her share of ups and downs. She's successful, you know, into her six decade, I guess. So I'll stop there. Yeah, I like her. I'd love to, I would love to sit down with her or invite her to a girl's weekend or something like that.

Tucker Johnson 50:07
Wine and cheese party. Invite me to right here, I'm in Seattle with you, Chris, okay. I was

Kris Girrell 50:22
gonna say, oh, man, there's so many choices. You know, I would pick Arnold Schwarzenegger just because of his accent. But that's awesome. I'm joking. I'm joking. I really, you know, the more I think about it, you know, Tom Hanks, because of his versatility, because it has this ability to be credible, whether he's playing solely the pilot that landed in the Hudson River, or you know, it, you know, big a boy that grew up too fast. Like, he, he plays every role as if that role was him, or that he was that person. Matt Damon is another one who does that. Robin Williams was somebody who did that. But you know, like, Tom Hanks probably is superior to in terms of his ability to morph himself to the situation and become the role. And I, I wish I had that kind of versatility to my personality, I'm kind of a one size fits all, you know, I'm a hammer and you're a nail. We're gonna get it, you're gonna put it together?

Tucker Johnson 51:41
Right? On acting, right? Yeah, right.

Kris Girrell 51:45
But it's not. So there's a group in Boston called the aerial group, a little plug for them, that are professional actors that teach executives that acting is not fake, it's not acting, it's actually being able to assume a characteristic that is the necessary characteristic for the situation. And leaders need to be able to do that. And so these professional actors actually teach a method method acting to exec so that they're getting better and better at being able to be the executive needed in the situation.

Tucker Johnson 52:21
I can't say that I disagree with the need for that, because that sounds like a very useful thing. But I'm just like, really, we need to take acting classes. All right, next you go. We can you can pass this if you want. No, no, no, I think it's gonna provide some insight. Yeah.

Allison Ferch 52:42
The movie star right. Can

Tucker Johnson 52:46
I was gonna say Qian arias. I liked that one.

Allison Ferch 52:50
Because he's extremely sucks. It's not because I want to, to, to go for lunch, or go for a lunch with him or have a coffee with him. It's not that because he's extremely successful with he's really humble. And he overcame so many adversities in life. So I would say so.

Tucker Johnson 53:13
Yeah, no, I was actually gonna say Keanu Reeves do it just for that, because I was trying to think of someone who's made made it and successful, but it's still really nice. And everyone says, he's just really nice. He's super real. He married a woman his age, like all of these things that like powerful men in Hollywood don't typically do. And it's like, he's kept his humanity. So I like that. Be Hall. Now, we're passing, we're skipping. Next question, than

Michal Antczak 53:46
just having issues. unmuted. It's just this is a tough one, right? Because I think a lot of especially movie stars, we don't really, I mean, the biggest, biggest, biggest ones, you hear probably more about their lives than you want to hear about. But for very many of them, we just don't know the details. Right. So I will just concentrate. And I'll just talk about the one that I like, the most, my favorite actor of all times. Right. And that's Bill Murray. And I know he is known for throwing tantrums. I know he is, you know, maybe not the easiest person but like to be with but on the on the on the movie star scale, he's probably not really bad, either. Right? And just, just to end it on a lighter note, you know, we're all localization people here and that role that he played and then in Lost in Translation is just brilliant. Just brilliant. I would never miss it for a while, but I would love to talk about this for weeks.

Tucker Johnson 54:50
Very good. All right. That was our lightning round here. And I think I think this is probably a good place to start wrapping it up here. You know, way more about us now. All because I think that was basically just a verbal Rorschach test we went through trying. So by who we would want to be mentored by, I think that tells us a lot about us. But it also tells you guys that are listening perhaps what what you might want to be looking for in a coach or in a mentor. And it's, it's not always who has the best website. It's not always the usual subject, subject, you know, the people who you see speaking at conferences, the people that you see, you know, it doesn't have to be those people. And it starts just by reaching out, talking and building relationships. And that's something that you can do right now. Like, there's something that you're doing right now. Like, I just clicked over to the chat really quickly. And you guys are having conversations you're talking, you're not letting something like a global freakin pandemic, stopping you from building your networks, building relationships, building trust with people. And that's what I always say, typically is, I'm not so concerned about mentorship. I'm not so concerned about coaching, but I am concerned about making friends. I am concerned about making connections and building strong relationships. And I think if you do that, you know, tomorrow, I'm gonna go out to lunch with a mentor that I've known for a long time, but I call her a friend. Right. And with that, I'd like to thank each and every one of you on the panel today, Brian is here he's gonna start playing the music getting the cane to pull us off stage. So thank you all for doing this. And once again, thank you Yuka for roping us into this and to our hosts for hosting this wonderful conversation.